DUST Search - More weapon mods plz (stabilizers, magazine mods, heat sinks)

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

I would like to state you should also heavily weigh the weapon mods merits vs the fitter's own tank; which should go in high and hwich should go in lows and which game style ultimately fits either role better.

For example a faster reload would likely benefit a shield tanker better as they're already dipping out of the face of combat to get shields going again and need to be ready ot go at a moments notice.

While a magazine expansion favors the armor tanker instead as they don't have the luxury of getting out of the stomr as fast thus needing to quell the storm instead with superior amount of bullets.

For the Reload vs Mag size you would want to want them as off tank slots to discourage the use of opposed tank slot modules that are not designed for the game style use (armor plates on sheild tankers for example)

Now in the case of damage application; this is where you want the device to share that game style's tank slot instead forcing a compromise on defense for more offense.

Range altercation is out of the question it was removed before and its not making its way back in. Range is a very heavy stat.
What can make it in is effective range or basically where hte most hurt occurs as long as it cannot surpass max range we should be good to go.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12153	Posted - 2015.03.16 21:24:00 - [1] - Quote I would like to see more infantry weapon modifiers that alter the stats and behavior of weapons, similar to damage mods. Vehicles have heat sinks and stabilizers in addition to damage mods, so I don't see why infantry shouldn't have more options as well to diversify their weapons and tactics as well. Damage modifiers are arguably the most dangerous type of weapon modifiers for balance, and they're already done and alright, so other mods should be relatively easy to balance. There was another thread on this by Cat Merc, which was inspired by an infantry heat sink thread I made when the Amarr assault was in danger of losing its heat bonus, but both threads are now dead, so I'm making this new thread. Here are some ideas for infantry weapon mods, and preliminary number, all organized by light/sidearm/heavy categories like damage mods are. Keep in mind that when you fit one of these, you're giving up a slot that could otherwise be used to fit a damage mod (proposed mods are high slot), and that stacking penalties apply. IDEAS: ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [Weapon stabilizers] - Reduces dispersion and kick Basic light weapon stabilizer: 10% Enhanced light weapon stabilizer: 15% Complex light stabilizer: 20% Basic sidearm weapon stabilizer: 15% Enhanced sidearm weapon stabilizer: 20% Complex sidearm weapon stabilizer: 25% Basic heavy weapon stabilizer: 5% Enhanced heavy weapon stabilizer: 10% Complex heavy weapon stabilizer: 15% ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [Magazine modifiers] - increases magazine size of weapons [b]that have at least 20 round magazines. Kind of useless for bolt pistols, mass drivers, sniper rifles, and other low magazine size weapons, but great for the others. Basic light magazine modifier: 10% Enhanced light magazine modifier: 15% Complex light magazine modifier: 20% Basic sidearm magazine modifier: 15% Enhanced sidearm magazine modifier: 20% Complex sidearm magazine modifier: 25% Basic heavy magazine modifier: 5% Enhanced heavy magazine modifier: 10% Complex heavy magazine modifier: 15% ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [Range modifiers] - increases the effective and optimal range of weapons Basic light range modifier: 5% Enhanced light range modifier: 10% Complex light range modifier: 15% Basic sidearm range modifier: 10% Enhanced sidearm range modifier: 15% Complex sidearm range modifier: 20% Basic heavy range modifier: 4% Enhanced heavy range modifier: 7% Complex heavy range modifier: 10% ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [Heat sinks] - Reduces heat buildup per shot. Only useful for ion pistol, scrambler rifle, assault scrambler rifle, laser rifle, and HMG Basic light heat sink: 5% Enhanced light heat sink: 10% Complex light heat sink: 15% Basic sidearm heat sink: 15% Enhanced sidearm heat sink: 35% Complex sidearm heat sink: 45% Basic heavy heat sink: 5% Enhanced heavy heat sink: 10% Complex heavy heat sink: 15% ________________________________________________________________________________________________ [ (BONUS IDEA) Equipment: weapon catalyst] - Activated like a cloak, and once active, it increases the rate of fire of any handheld weapon by 50% Standard duration / cooldown: 4 seconds / 40 seconds Advanced duration / cooldown: 8 seconds / 40 seconds Prototype duration / cooldown: 12 seconds / 40 seconds. PG/CPU costs should be high. The assault PG/CPU reduction bonus for weapons and grenades could be expanded to include it, and the logi bonus could be modified to exclude it. This is just a rough idea that came to me while writing this thread; it's inspired by the cloak, and active vehicle damage mods. ________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ideas for new mods, as well as feedback on my proposed mods are welcomed, and proposal may be revised based on feedback. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12156	Posted - 2015.03.16 22:46:00 - [2] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: ADV/CX Sidearm heatsink is useless... Only Ion Pistols overheat, and even the basic one would prevent that completely. Ion Pistols overheat at like 13-14 rounds, and have a 16rd mag. For heatsinks, I would just have them mirrored across weapon sizes. Same with magazine mods. Their percentages should also be identical, since they are achieving the same goal. 10/15/20% or thereabouts. Fine tune them... Ion pistols are weird, they overheat inconsistently because heat is really based on fire rate rather than number of shots fired. Somehow firing slower seems to lead to very fast overheat, so I don't know if just the standard one would prevent all overheat when firing slowly. I will adjust the numbers to look less crazy though. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12159	Posted - 2015.03.16 23:19:00 - [3] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Years ago the 'plan' was to have a Weapon fitting screen too where you could customize your rifles with scopes, stocks, silencers ect. even a Modular SMG concent art here yet another thing promised and not delivered I know about it, but this is not about that. This is just about high slot modules like the current damage mods that alter the stats and behavior. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12160	Posted - 2015.03.16 23:44:00 - [4] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Years ago the 'plan' was to have a Weapon fitting screen too where you could customize your rifles with scopes, stocks, silencers ect. even a Modular SMG concent art here yet another thing promised and not delivered I know about it, but this is not about that. This is just about high slot modules like the current damage mods that alter the stats and behavior. I have news for you. A thread goes wherever the posters take it. The OP gives it life, but that's where it ends. I have news for you, posting off topic has gotten people punished (rule 26). This is not a threat, but a refutation of your claim that threads can just become about anything if people feel like changing the subject. The OP decides the subject of the thread; a thread about a proposed commando slot changes for example can't be derailed into becoming a thread about a long dead plan for a new dropsuit type. Likewise, a thread about high slot modules to alter stats and behavior of weapons cannot turn into a thread about a long dead plan CCP once had, but no longer has the resources devoted to Dust to accomplish (weapon fitting screen and modular customization, it's just not going to happen). If you, him, or someone else wants to make a separate thread about this subject of weapon fitting screens and modular customization with gun parts, feel free to do so. I am a poster in thread just as much as anyone else, so by your logic, I can keep influencing the direction of the thread just as anyone else can. Jathniel wrote: Funny. I just proposed moving the jumping ability to kin cats, and giving myos a recoil reduction bonus instead. Stronger forearms and triceps = more stable aim and recoil control no? That would logically make sense, though KinKats are already pretty great without adding jumping abilities to them, and I think it would be better for categorization to have weapon mods separate from biotics. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12161	Posted - 2015.03.16 23:52:00 - [5] - Quote LUGMOS wrote: Imagine the ScRs... There would defo be a Nerf should these mods be introduced. These mods when balanced wouldn't make a SCR any more useful or powerful than a damage mod currently does, so I don't see why the SCR would be more problematic with it. Imagine an ACR with Minmatar assault magazine bonus in addition to magazine mods turning it into an LMG, or a RR's already massive range being increased with range mods. All weapons would benefit, but that benefit will always be a cost/benefit with other modules competing for limited high slots. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12161	Posted - 2015.03.16 23:58:00 - [6] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: Magasine size no. clip size yes. reduce dispersion yes. reduce recoil kick no. range up hell no. Please no. Gonna be a facking nightgmare. heat sink yes. scope yes. Dot sight please. silencer so much better. Magazine means the exact same thing as clip, its just that Dust mislabels magazine as clip. Why is kick reduction an issue? We already have mods that increase our damage (most problematic for balance) I can see why range would be problematic, but I don't think it will be any worse than damage mods when fully balanced. Sight/scope mods I would like, though I feel like they would be much harder to do since they actually change the 3D model of the gun. Also I don't know how progression in different tiers would be handled. Any suggestions for progression? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12169	Posted - 2015.03.17 03:42:00 - [7] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Nice thread, Kageoshi. +1 I've long been an advocate for these type of mods. Couple quick thoughts: 1) I would like a Weapon Capacitor Mod* - reduces charge time on rail tech and forge guns. 2) My personal preference is that these "mods" would actually be an equipment slot. I can see the trade-off for making it an actual module but it would make balance distinctly easier since you wouldn't have to choose between high / low slots for where certain types of weapon mods went. This has long been an issue that gave some innate advantages to armor tankers who can increase damage output without sacrificing tank. Long term...i would actually prefer to add some "weapon equipment" slots which gives you some more granular tools on tweaking Assault / Commando / Heavies (i.e. offensively minded suits) and thus balancing a bit more with Logis and their support equipment. Ooh, actually was thinking about the charge/spool-time mod. Would be great. I'm thinking of the term magnetic accelerator. Anyway, the charge/spool times are so short, I don't think it would be worth the trade-off when you can put a damage mod or something else. Also I wouldn't be apposed to these being equipment. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12170	Posted - 2015.03.17 09:44:00 - [8] - Quote Russel Mendoza wrote: I dont mind my magazine size, i want my clip size to be more, the actual number of shots you can fire before reloading thats clip size. for me kickback/recoil is what makes shooting feel realistic, dont touch that, i just what a added little accuracy on my shots, so i want less dispersion. range is already balance for me, short range have higher dps, while long range have less. imagine an ar or cr grinding at you from 100 meters, my rr would look pitiful. i was wondering about that, my toxin ar has scope when you look at it with the square button, but ingame it aint got none. cant they just slap one from the scope of the rr or scr, if they dont want to do a lot of coding. about progression, your formula for bsc, adv and proto looks fine. "the actual number of shots you can fire before reloading thats clip size" That is magazine, the game uses the wrong word for it. Here is an image of a real life magazine. "short range have higher dps, while long range have less" Yet long range weapons can raise DPS with damage mods, so I don't see why high DPS weapons shouldn't be able to raise range with range mods. If an enemy with an ACR raises their range with range mods, you can do the same with your RR and surpass them, or even out-DPS them with enough damage mods. What I'm asking in regards to progression is for example how would a standard red dot sight be different from an prototype one? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12174	Posted - 2015.03.17 20:29:00 - [9] - Quote Added this edit to the OP: They don't all have to be high slot modules, and as some have pointed out, it would help shield-users if many were low slot modules. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12176	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:04:00 - [10] - Quote Michael Epic wrote: Honestly, I think ALL your values for EVERYTHING are ASTRONOMICALLY too high. at best; Basic 3% Advanced 4% Proto 5% Otherwise there is a nightmare of proto players running around with +20% and newbies that don't have a clue what is going on! 5% less kick and dispersion, or 5% more range, or 5% more magazine size is hardly worth i compared to 7% more damage, though I think my heat sinks may be a bit too much. Will tone them down a bit. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12176	Posted - 2015.03.17 23:41:00 - [11] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: begins to feel constructive and well rested I dislike how so many mods to not involve any sort of tradeoffs (in and of themselves). Simply buffing a specific aspect of weapon firing is... kinda boring, and not to mention that any straight buff could be rendered hard to balance (useless/useful, that is a fine line). Why not implement tradeoffs? I think it would allow for greater %s and overall creativity. For example (a poorly thought out one, perhaps): Complex Clip extender (+) 50% clip size increase (-) 15% recoil increase (-) 10% carried ammo decrease (-) 5% damage decrease (-) 5% heat buildup increase The large, quite useful bonus (+) is offset by multiple negatives (-). Those negatives, could in turn, be mitigated in with another module (which would also have some negatives). This creates a situation where you are LITERALLY making tradeoffs for an advantage. I'd say such a thing would be funner, easier to balance, and just more interesting in general. I like the general idea. Each modules could have a second version that gives a much greater bonus in exchange for some drawbacks (like a high efficacy heat sink that reduces damage as a side effect). The benefit has to outweigh the disadvantages though. I would not want to waste the ISK, the high slot (or low slot, since I think at least some should be lows), and the PG/CPU for a module whose positives are equaled out by negatives. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12176	Posted - 2015.03.18 02:49:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would like to state you should also heavily weigh the weapon mods merits vs the fitter's own tank; which should go in high and hwich should go in lows and which game style ultimately fits either role better. For example a faster reload would likely benefit a shield tanker better as they're already dipping out of the face of combat to get shields going again and need to be ready ot go at a moments notice. While a magazine expansion favors the armor tanker instead as they don't have the luxury of getting out of the stomr as fast thus needing to quell the storm instead with superior amount of bullets. For the Reload vs Mag size you would want to want them as off tank slots to discourage the use of opposed tank slot modules that are not designed for the game style use (armor plates on sheild tankers for example) Now in the case of damage application; this is where you want the device to share that game style's tank slot instead forcing a compromise on defense for more offense. Range altercation is out of the question it was removed before and its not making its way back in. Range is a very heavy stat. What can make it in is effective range or basically where hte most hurt occurs as long as it cannot surpass max range we should be good to go. In regards to range alteration, when it was in the game, it was as a skill that gave a maximum of 15% more range without any sacrifices. Modules are fundamentally different in that they require sacrifices of slots and PG/CPU, so I think it can be done in a balanced way as a module. As stated in the OP, the idea is not to increase maximum range, but just optimal and effective, though I'm willing to settle for just effective. I agree with you on the magazine vs reload module slot types. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12195	Posted - 2015.03.20 15:09:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Only by the most loose definition. And the magazine increases would be too low to benefit things like mass drivers and forge guns. Was already acknowledged in the OP, it's not meant for those weapons. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12198	Posted - 2015.03.20 16:25:00 - [14] - Quote Updated OP a bit. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12222	Posted - 2015.03.22 10:10:00 - [15] - Quote pew pew Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12255	Posted - 2015.04.14 20:03:00 - [16] - Quote Still want Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12286	Posted - 2015.04.21 07:09:00 - [17] - Quote Anyone else want? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.05 16:46:00 - [18] - Quote Still want Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 12	Posted - 2015.07.06 20:05:00 - [19] - Quote Mex-0 wrote: But then what if you stack the range mods on a shotty... it'll be like a kill from 30 meters away. I'm guessing you didn't actually do the math. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+